Past note sent out... into the void...
Dear President Bush 3 apr 07
Recent British difficulties in the gulf have highlighted a shortcoming in American policy that you as Commander in Chief can repair. The military still lives under the shadow if not directions of "Name Rank and Serial Number" as portrayed in film and lore. The world situation has changed and increasingly captives of other cultures and governments are being pressured if not tortured into statements they would not otherwise make. The US could make such statements of no value by changing the national policy.
Our policy should be that citizens and personnel of the US may say anything their captives wish to avoid punitive actions that would not be permitted in the US. Further that any statements made by US Citizens not made at home or in a neutral third party setting were considered sheltered under national policy and not to be taken at face value.
The preceding policy would make the "publicity" statements and apologies of captives of no value and provide captives protection from torture through authorized capitulation to demands. You can change this by executive action and help lead the world to similar international agreement thereby providing a measure of personal safety to military personal and other national representives not currently available, both to our citizens and public servants and the rest of the worlds.
You as President and we as a nation can make a difference in the treatment and care of our public representives and servants and those of the world by your making this simple but important policy change. I respectfully request that you/we, Do it now.
Thursday, June 19, 2008
Torture, not an option
Torture
I torture the mad bomber and now I feel the need to repent.
I should like to have saved this for a book I planned on writing, but the question weighs too heavily and the elections seem to provide leverage, so here it is in all it’s premature glory
I tortured the mad bomber in the effort to serve the greater good and had not thought of it for years and now I regret it, and in that regret feel the need of repentance, and that need fills me with the commitment that the act was wrong. I bent my deontology over double to accomplish the task, but such is the flexibility of logic and rhetoric. I know that by feeling the moral duty to repent: recognize, acknowledge, restore, forsake, That what I did was wrong, thank you Boyd K Packer and Mrs Bock.
"There is something reassuring about standing for something, and knowing what we stand for. For Men or women who are true to themselves and to the virtues and standards they have personally adopted, it is not difficult to be true to others. Those who are committed to, and have patterned their lives after, a Higher Power need not rely on public opinion, which is often blatantly skewed." (Hinkley, standing for something.)
Bob Hines Sr MTO Seattle, on treatment of fellow workers told us "don’t say or do at work what you would not want repeated to your wife with your minister present. At another time he said if you would not want your mother treated that way, don’t do it.
Emerson and Thoreau and jail what doing in, what doing out ... the ends never justifies the means
Kant on never treat as a means always as and end only.
I will not deny my own humanity and Torture the mad bomber again, and feel an obligation to help others feel the same.
In the agony of tragedy we felt and feel first the impulse to seek revenge, we need to have the convection of belief to hold to the right standards
"An eye for an eye, making the whole world blind" Gandhi
a law of last resort, the maximum penalty extended to Those unrepentant and uncooperative, unwilling to participate, not a standard for life and friendship.
I repent and forgive not for any other but for me... Nibly "in this the angles envy man, to repent and to forgive."
Enlightened self interest repent and forgive for me not because they deserve it but as act of contrition before God because I want and need it.
I will not Torture nor tolerate it in my name.
Don’t quibble with the issue
if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, and lines it’s chicks up in need little rows it’s a DUCK!
Like porn, I might not be able to give a good definition but "I know it when I see It"
so leave my mother alone
a communist will Torture you to sine a note saying that you have not been tortured ( seven years in hanoi)
Nibley " I did not want to interrogate prisoners, no matter how being the threats used, there was something morally repugnant to it all"
It’s a moral question, and for me it ends with could I get a temple recommend if I tortured people for a living?... NO
If I can’t do it and keep my hands clean and my temple recommend current , I will not do it.
Congress needs to hold hearings on if we have ever gotten any true timely usable information from torture, if not it should be banned as unless and a waste of money as well as immoral and outside both the national moral standard, international agreements and our sovereign law
If we let them do it as punishment or reprisal, or ship prisoners off somewhere else and let someone else torture them we are no better than if we had done it ourselves.
We need , for our own sake and morality, to be above board and above question, we don’t do it , approve of it and we don’t proxy out the work... it’s like the story of the wagon transport company and the driver interview about who can run the narrow road on the hill the best and each tries to one up the others , tell the last interview who says, don’t know how close but I can rub the wheels on the safe inside the whole way, and he go t the job.
We need to run a protest with the pictures of mothers of supreme court justices, pres, senators, congress, CIA head "Not to my mother"
I torture the mad bomber and now I feel the need to repent.
I should like to have saved this for a book I planned on writing, but the question weighs too heavily and the elections seem to provide leverage, so here it is in all it’s premature glory
I tortured the mad bomber in the effort to serve the greater good and had not thought of it for years and now I regret it, and in that regret feel the need of repentance, and that need fills me with the commitment that the act was wrong. I bent my deontology over double to accomplish the task, but such is the flexibility of logic and rhetoric. I know that by feeling the moral duty to repent: recognize, acknowledge, restore, forsake, That what I did was wrong, thank you Boyd K Packer and Mrs Bock.
"There is something reassuring about standing for something, and knowing what we stand for. For Men or women who are true to themselves and to the virtues and standards they have personally adopted, it is not difficult to be true to others. Those who are committed to, and have patterned their lives after, a Higher Power need not rely on public opinion, which is often blatantly skewed." (Hinkley, standing for something.)
Bob Hines Sr MTO Seattle, on treatment of fellow workers told us "don’t say or do at work what you would not want repeated to your wife with your minister present. At another time he said if you would not want your mother treated that way, don’t do it.
Emerson and Thoreau and jail what doing in, what doing out ... the ends never justifies the means
Kant on never treat as a means always as and end only.
I will not deny my own humanity and Torture the mad bomber again, and feel an obligation to help others feel the same.
In the agony of tragedy we felt and feel first the impulse to seek revenge, we need to have the convection of belief to hold to the right standards
"An eye for an eye, making the whole world blind" Gandhi
a law of last resort, the maximum penalty extended to Those unrepentant and uncooperative, unwilling to participate, not a standard for life and friendship.
I repent and forgive not for any other but for me... Nibly "in this the angles envy man, to repent and to forgive."
Enlightened self interest repent and forgive for me not because they deserve it but as act of contrition before God because I want and need it.
I will not Torture nor tolerate it in my name.
Don’t quibble with the issue
if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, and lines it’s chicks up in need little rows it’s a DUCK!
Like porn, I might not be able to give a good definition but "I know it when I see It"
so leave my mother alone
a communist will Torture you to sine a note saying that you have not been tortured ( seven years in hanoi)
Nibley " I did not want to interrogate prisoners, no matter how being the threats used, there was something morally repugnant to it all"
It’s a moral question, and for me it ends with could I get a temple recommend if I tortured people for a living?... NO
If I can’t do it and keep my hands clean and my temple recommend current , I will not do it.
Congress needs to hold hearings on if we have ever gotten any true timely usable information from torture, if not it should be banned as unless and a waste of money as well as immoral and outside both the national moral standard, international agreements and our sovereign law
If we let them do it as punishment or reprisal, or ship prisoners off somewhere else and let someone else torture them we are no better than if we had done it ourselves.
We need , for our own sake and morality, to be above board and above question, we don’t do it , approve of it and we don’t proxy out the work... it’s like the story of the wagon transport company and the driver interview about who can run the narrow road on the hill the best and each tries to one up the others , tell the last interview who says, don’t know how close but I can rub the wheels on the safe inside the whole way, and he go t the job.
We need to run a protest with the pictures of mothers of supreme court justices, pres, senators, congress, CIA head "Not to my mother"
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